To me, this is living philosophy. Life is deep, rich, fecund. It comes through us in subtle ways, and expresses itself in myriad ways. Your analogy of dairy and soil could also encompass our public educational system that narrowly restricts thinking, sterilizes our ability to conceptualize and stunts exploration. On purpose.
Your "off-road" style of learning encourages us to be less fearful and trust benign chaos. I truly love what you do. Thank you.
Thank you. Unfortunately the analogy can be applied to many aspects of modern life. But it does feel like the more extreme the control and sterilize mentality gets, the stronger the reaction to it becomes.
I like listening to the voice recordings; you don't just read the article but include other info... so, thank you!
This information is very interesting - the parallel between plowing and pasteurization, etc and why it's harmful. Totally makes sense, I wish more people were aware of the fact that starter cultures are from these large corporations.
If cheesemakers were able to cultivate their own "starters," cheese would be more interesting and there could be cheese terroir in the US.
Knowing this info makes me feel paralyzed because it's like, ok, NOW WHAT? What can we do about it? Start a cheese lobby? I mean, if buying parmigiano reggiano and other cheeses is legal and they are made without these gm cultures, why wouldn't it be legal to make cheese this way in the US? Is it just corporate greed?
Also - I'd guess that most people in the US are afraid of raw milk and raw milk cheese. So how do we change the paradigm?
That feeling of paralysis is real, and something we hopefully can offer methods of shaking up. I think the fear of raw is shifting, but the extremism in either side is perhaps preventing reasonable discussion.
For cheese, there doesn’t appear to be any legal ruling specifically dealing with Nat. Starters. Cheese made from clabber would most likely have to be considered raw.
I think both national and international organizing of natural cheesemakers is a good idea.
I really like listening to you reading your posts. ……I don’t feel defensive about using packaged starters. I don’t always want to let the milk sit overnight to make my own starter. It’s not from my own animals I used to milk, it’s been refrigerated already, and some is too clean, or some is too dirty and propagates bad flavors/aromas or the wrong kinds of bacteria instead of lactic starters. ……I teach cheesemaking mostly using packaged starters bc new cheesemakers want a cheese that tastes good dependably. I focus on the methods, and underlying principles, that a new person can absorb, and use with the raw milk they can locate, in the time they are here, or on the phone….They learn how they could make their own starters simply, but at their stage, and not owning animals, that’s not my main focus. ….It’s like teaching piano to a beginner, they want to learn “a song” and get the main , workable, techniques within the allotted time. …….If I had milking animals again, I would show my participants exactly as your people show you in their settings, and I do talk about those methods in my classes. Thanks for your thought-provoking and insightful work.
I have to somewhat disagree in the next article about pasteurizing being ok. I think pasteurized milk has ruined milk. I'd WAY rather use a direct-set culture to enhance my raw milk cheese rather than use a pasteurized product and try to build it back up with a mother culture.
I think heat treating is an option that needs to stay on the table, since not everyone has access to fresh raw milk, and not all milk is created equal.
I agree there is a lack of raw milk availability due to government control and modern society's distance from nature. But, modern abilities to test/cull for disease allow us (at least in the US) to have potential access to the safest raw milk (clean, unadulterated milk fresh from cow/goat/sheep/etc, preferably produced and sold on farm) ever produced. I have a harder time saying there's a good place for pasteurization (heat treatment of milk)...because it's become a crutch for bad practices. I can't personally consume pasteurized milk products (not even low temp), and I'm not alone in that issue. People are lauding something like A2, when the real issue with our guts really stems more from processed vs unprocessed. Take something like pasteurized milk yogurt and reintroduce certain bacteria, it's still just a blip on the radar of microbial diversity, like you discussed in your thread. I'm not saying ban pasteurization, it's definitely a tool to take into account. But I think it should be a "last resort" option, not the standard.
To me, this is living philosophy. Life is deep, rich, fecund. It comes through us in subtle ways, and expresses itself in myriad ways. Your analogy of dairy and soil could also encompass our public educational system that narrowly restricts thinking, sterilizes our ability to conceptualize and stunts exploration. On purpose.
Your "off-road" style of learning encourages us to be less fearful and trust benign chaos. I truly love what you do. Thank you.
Thank you. Unfortunately the analogy can be applied to many aspects of modern life. But it does feel like the more extreme the control and sterilize mentality gets, the stronger the reaction to it becomes.
I like listening to the voice recordings; you don't just read the article but include other info... so, thank you!
This information is very interesting - the parallel between plowing and pasteurization, etc and why it's harmful. Totally makes sense, I wish more people were aware of the fact that starter cultures are from these large corporations.
If cheesemakers were able to cultivate their own "starters," cheese would be more interesting and there could be cheese terroir in the US.
Knowing this info makes me feel paralyzed because it's like, ok, NOW WHAT? What can we do about it? Start a cheese lobby? I mean, if buying parmigiano reggiano and other cheeses is legal and they are made without these gm cultures, why wouldn't it be legal to make cheese this way in the US? Is it just corporate greed?
Also - I'd guess that most people in the US are afraid of raw milk and raw milk cheese. So how do we change the paradigm?
That feeling of paralysis is real, and something we hopefully can offer methods of shaking up. I think the fear of raw is shifting, but the extremism in either side is perhaps preventing reasonable discussion.
For cheese, there doesn’t appear to be any legal ruling specifically dealing with Nat. Starters. Cheese made from clabber would most likely have to be considered raw.
I think both national and international organizing of natural cheesemakers is a good idea.
I really like listening to you reading your posts. ……I don’t feel defensive about using packaged starters. I don’t always want to let the milk sit overnight to make my own starter. It’s not from my own animals I used to milk, it’s been refrigerated already, and some is too clean, or some is too dirty and propagates bad flavors/aromas or the wrong kinds of bacteria instead of lactic starters. ……I teach cheesemaking mostly using packaged starters bc new cheesemakers want a cheese that tastes good dependably. I focus on the methods, and underlying principles, that a new person can absorb, and use with the raw milk they can locate, in the time they are here, or on the phone….They learn how they could make their own starters simply, but at their stage, and not owning animals, that’s not my main focus. ….It’s like teaching piano to a beginner, they want to learn “a song” and get the main , workable, techniques within the allotted time. …….If I had milking animals again, I would show my participants exactly as your people show you in their settings, and I do talk about those methods in my classes. Thanks for your thought-provoking and insightful work.
Awesome article!
I have to somewhat disagree in the next article about pasteurizing being ok. I think pasteurized milk has ruined milk. I'd WAY rather use a direct-set culture to enhance my raw milk cheese rather than use a pasteurized product and try to build it back up with a mother culture.
I think heat treating is an option that needs to stay on the table, since not everyone has access to fresh raw milk, and not all milk is created equal.
How do you define pasteurization and raw milk?
I agree there is a lack of raw milk availability due to government control and modern society's distance from nature. But, modern abilities to test/cull for disease allow us (at least in the US) to have potential access to the safest raw milk (clean, unadulterated milk fresh from cow/goat/sheep/etc, preferably produced and sold on farm) ever produced. I have a harder time saying there's a good place for pasteurization (heat treatment of milk)...because it's become a crutch for bad practices. I can't personally consume pasteurized milk products (not even low temp), and I'm not alone in that issue. People are lauding something like A2, when the real issue with our guts really stems more from processed vs unprocessed. Take something like pasteurized milk yogurt and reintroduce certain bacteria, it's still just a blip on the radar of microbial diversity, like you discussed in your thread. I'm not saying ban pasteurization, it's definitely a tool to take into account. But I think it should be a "last resort" option, not the standard.
Mother Noella and Jasper Hill have a good discussion about microbes and cheese here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sdBFqIsX1Q
Beneficial microbes we can team with, and teem with 😜